Leading Digital Transformation: The People Factor

In this episode of 'Thriving in the Digital Age', host Joe Crist speaks with Vandana Khanna, a leader in digital transformation in finance. They discuss the critical role of people in digital transformation, the challenges organizations face, the importance of process design, and the need for continuous learning and employee engagement. Vandana emphasizes that successful transformation is not just about technology but about leading people through change. The conversation also touches on the necessity of adapting to rapid changes in the industry and the importance of listening as a leadership skill.

Transcript

Joe Crist (00:01)
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Thriving in the Digital Age. I'm your host, Joe Crist. Joining me today is Vandana Khanna. Vandana, thank you so much for joining us today. Could you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

Vandana (00:14)
Absolutely lovely to be here. Thanks, Joe. Hey, guys, I'm Vandana Khanna, and I'm calling from New Jersey, beautiful New Jersey today. And I'm a leader for digital transformation in finance at one of the largest CPG startups and leading a project which is actually creating history in digital transformation. And it is in S4HANA if anyone is interested. So truly, I am passionate.

leader of digital transformation. have done this for several years now. And for me, this gives me the most exhilarating experience when I lead transformation, because it is not just about tools and technologies. It is about people. And for me, leading people is the most important thing. I think everyone can lead people, but how do you lead them successfully is the art of transformation. So that's who I am.

Yeah, I enjoy it every minute.

Joe Crist (01:16)
So you brought up something interesting I think a lot of people miss, right? When it comes to digital transformation is the people aspect, right? Obviously there's a lot of challenges there, but obviously you've been in the industry for a while. Where are some of the challenges you see around digital transformation and especially digital transformation in the finance world?

Vandana (01:33)
Yeah. And as I said earlier, and you mentioned it, so transformation always start with people and with people. And everything else is in between. So yes, technology will not fail. Tools will not fail. They will work. I mean, we are in 2025 now, so things should work. We are in the land of agent AI, Gen. AI. So they will work. But people, people are human beings. And you have to make sure

They understand the technology. They understand the tools. They believe in it. They buy it. And they adopt it. So it is all about people. So in this whole journey, how do you make sure they are remaining associated with the projects which are going on? What transformation activity is happening? So challenge-wise, how do you make sure these people remain motivated in learning, up-skilling, getting to a new point?

and adopting the new technologies as the company or the organization moves forward. And that is a challenge as well as an exhilarating experience on its own. If they buy into it, learn to love it and use it, your transformation journey actually is very successful. But if you face lot of resistance, you face lot of uphill battle in this journey, then yes, you have lot more work to do. And that's where transformation leaders like

me and people like me come in and motivate these people to work through the process and adopt the mindset and get on the transformation band by then. So I would say the toughest part is change management. It can be easy if all people are bought into it, but it can be equally very challenging and very difficult if people don't understand the value prop behind the transformation.

Joe Crist (03:25)
Right. You know, that's something I've seen a lot myself too, especially when it comes to getting people on board and getting that buy-in. Right. And one of the things I've seen personally, it's the lack of knowledge of how the transformation will look at the end. I can't tell you the amount of times that somebody didn't buy in because they thought they wouldn't be part of the change. Right. Or like their job is now threatened. I mean, I can tell you there was a guy I worked with a long time ago.

when we were adopting cloud and most of his experience was in VMware. And from the day he found this out, he was on a war path to make sure this thing didn't succeed. Are you seeing things like that as well?

Vandana (04:11)
Yeah, not so explicitly, I would say, but yes, it is there. It is there. When people resist change, there are a couple of factors. One, they don't understand the bigger picture. What is in it for me? What is the end goal? Where is this journey going? And then, of course, in the mindset, it is there. Is my job at risk? Will I be able to do it because something else is changing or I'll be redundant? So these factors are going on in that human mind.

And how do you make sure you communicate or rather over communicate the value prop behind the transformation so that you take everyone along? And I would say over communicate the right thing. Don't oversell because if you don't deliver, then the trust is gone already. So over communicate, but don't oversell. Sell the right manner. It's a Goldilocks theorem if I can use because I'm a math geek.

Joe Crist (04:58)
Yes.

Vandana (05:08)
But it should be very much in the right moment. Whatever, I would say rather undersell and talk about actually what can be done by the technology and the process enhancements and the process adoption and what it will change for the person and how that will transform a person's day to day. If they're spending so much time in Excel and they are already dead by PowerPoint, so how is their life being modified?

by utilizing these new technologies because now your processes are harmonized, your data is in much better shape, and your tool has become an enabler for you. So how do you make sure you go in that journey rather than being negative about it? So again, if the leaders do that thing right and make sure the sponsors are talking the talk, then people are less scared. But that scary feeling remains for a long time.

Joe Crist (06:04)
Yeah. I think one of the most important things is really getting the buy-in for everybody. There are so many times where I've seen business leaders adopt, they imagine digital transformation as, we have AI or we have IoT or blockchain or whatever. They see it, and this is not all, but I definitely have seen it with some, where it's...

they imagine that this new technology will be the difference maker, right? It's like, we'll go faster, we'll save money, we'll scale, we'll do this, we'll do that. But in reality, you need the people to help execute this change, right? But these people aren't going to invest if they don't feel there's a future. And like that's obviously very scary, right? I mean, there is so much uncertainty in the world today, right? We're moving fast. We're moving incredibly fast to the point where...

People are becoming fearful of what tomorrow will look like, what next month will look like. Will I still have a job? Will this company still be here? Because with digital transformation, it has lowered the bar of entry for those very tech savvy companies who are learning how to scale. the truth is, people are the difference maker, not the technology. And when you bring people along on a ride, you really do see this scale effectively.

Vandana (07:28)
Yep, 100%, 100%.

Joe Crist (07:33)
So I mean, obviously people are, I would definitely consider the most important part of digital transformation. But when it comes to like actually processes side, like the way I've always seen it, it's people before process, but process before technology. Like, do you see anything in the realm of like when it comes to building better processes or do, or how do actually people really adjust with that as well?

Vandana (07:54)
Yeah, I think again, it boils down to a couple of things. Make sure people understand what processes will be modified. Again, the scary factor starts when they say, okay, the process is changing, technology is changing. How will I be able to adopt that in such a quick timeframe? That is too much burden. So how do you make sure you make it or synthesize it or clearly lay it out that these are the top 10 processes will be changing and they will be changing because, and this is the value you'll be getting.

The more you talk about it, people start understanding it. Again, human attention span is going down and down. Even I can't focus for a very long time, as I used to do it last year probably. So I would say you have to repeat that same thing maybe two times, three times, four times for people to understand what is changing in that process. And process design is a very, very, very important thing. And I cannot stress upon this very enough.

because you have to give it enough space to understand what processes will be changing. You have to design so that it works in the org structure, in the org model in which people are living in. It should not be designed just because technology is changing. Technology is one piece of it, but processes should be what makes you more efficient as an organization. That should be the mindset. That should be the company way of thinking.

But sometimes we do it backwards. We harmonize processes, modify processes, because of a technology. So these processes and these transformations should be 100 and 200 % business led, not technology led. When they are business led, their processes work much better. They will focus on how do we make sure there is something for them to utilize in the long run. And then you get your ROIs and everything should be measured.

If something cannot be measured, it will not be successful, then you don't know where it went. Then it will be sunk cost at the end in your balance sheet. So make sure you understand which KPIs are laid down in front of people. And then they are constantly measured. And these scorecards are shown to people in full transparency all the time. See, this is what you're getting. This is how it will change. This is the ROI we are going to get. And people should understand ROI should not be

in terms of just FTE reduction. Sometimes transformation projects are considered a way to reduce. And that's, again, a scary factor for human beings that what will happen if you show that ROI and I am one of those numbers. So how do you lay out that holistic view in front of people and say, transformation is going to drive process harmonization? Your data will become much better. So now you can layer on GenAI on top of it.

Now you will be able to do your work faster. Instead of getting into the Excel jail, which I mentioned earlier, now you'll get out of it and you'll be able to get your answers at your fingertips. So this is value for people. When they see it, then they believe it. So show them and they will come to it. So this is how I like to operate. The more you show, the more value you get. And they will get on the bandwagon and start working with you rather than against you.

Joe Crist (11:11)
That's really well put. What's that expression? The proof is in the pudding? Yeah, right. Showing them, like, hey, there's real value. Your efforts are making a real change here. I've met a lot of people who they work at their job because it's a job. It's money for them. And because of that, they don't really get

Vandana (11:27)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Joe Crist (11:40)
They don't really invest their time or a lot of their brain power into making things change. And, but what I've seen too, it's they never really see their changes. Right. And you mentioned before, like KPIs and really having good ones and, and not just in terms of like finance, right. Like looking at your quarterly earnings, like looking at throughput, looking at a net promoter score and seeing how your customers are really feeling, seeing the real things that make the difference and improve.

Vandana (11:48)
Yeah.

Joe Crist (12:09)
not only the company, but the customer's experience with it, because that does matter. People are the end, or beginning and end of transformation, right? We are the judges of what is truly valuable, you know? And in terms of the customer too, that's not always the end customer. Sometimes it's the employee who is the customer here. It's the employee who's getting benefit from it. Because if they're successful, the company's successful. And if...

Vandana (12:36)
Mm-hmm.

Joe Crist (12:37)
They're successful. The customer is successful at the end.

Vandana (12:41)
Yeah, yeah. And it is not just the voice of external customer. It is the voice of internal customer, which should carry more weight. They are the ambassadors for the organization. If they are happy people, they will show happiness outside and they will be able to talk about it. Okay, yes, this is happening and I enjoy it. So I think a lot of work has to be done still by the organizations to make sure that it is not just lip service.

It is how do you make sure people truly understand the value of what is happening and how it will impact them. So yeah, NPS is an amazing metric, not just for outside, but it should be constantly looked at and shared with people internally.

Joe Crist (13:23)
Absolutely. So obviously there's a lot of challenges out there, right? And, you know, I'm sure you've seen a lot of them, but you to work towards a lot of solutions. What can companies start really doing today or in the future to start really alleviating these challenges?

Vandana (13:27)
Mm-hmm.

I think it might sound cliche, but up-skilling is very, very, very important. And sometimes people take it for granted that you bring in people, they already know it, and they will understand it, and they will move forward. But no, that is not a true statement. Sometimes you have to spend some time in making sure people learn what is happening. They should know the art of the possible. They should see the big picture. They should be efficient on boarding and knowledge share. So whether you set up learning hubs,

Digital literacy is something which is again taken for granted. people will come in, they know about everything. And I can say that many people know about Gen.ai at this point of time. But how Gen.ai can be maximized and utilized? I don't know if many people understand that. In some instances, it could just be a buzzword. But it is such a big buzzword, like transformation is. It will remain a buzzword for a very long time. So the point I'm making here is

Make sure people actually are vested in their future in the organization. So even if you have to spend some time in extending the onboarding and learning and capabilities to give them and show them, do it. That carries a lot of weight. And I think this is one of the tech organization. I don't know who said it, but one of the big five tech organizations when they were hiring, they did the same thing. And this was maybe 10, 15 years ago.

But those people definitely were thriving in that tech land when they learned what is happening. They knew what the end game is. But if we don't show them and they are siloed and we create the silos on our own and say, OK, focus on this. No need to focus on something else. Then how will they understand they're truly vested in the growth of the organization? We don't show them the numbers. How will they know what are they driving towards?

So it is very, very important and learning can be in multiple facets. It need not be, okay, go to a training for five days and then forget all about it. It should be constant learning, constant learning, up-skilling. Then people will develop that growth mindset. Again, a very overused word, but a very powerful word. You will only feel it when you see it. If you don't talk about the things happening in the organizations, then people will not see.

hey, these are things I'm driving, whether it's a product launch or a new brand coming to the market. If people see they are driving it, they will be too much attached to the brand. That is when you develop the employee loyalty. So these are all the maturity stages when people go through. But again, the starting point is learning, learning all the time.

Joe Crist (16:23)
Yeah, you know, it's had me thinking about learning and development programs, right? L &D, one of the most overlooked things, but one of the most, like one of the strongest indicators that that business will grow. You know, it's a lot of companies.

Vandana (16:30)
Yeah, yeah.

Yes, yes.

Joe Crist (16:42)
A lot of companies, especially when they're growing, they focus on revenue generation. We need to make more money and more money and more money in order to keep growing and scaling and investing.

Vandana (16:46)
Yes.

Joe Crist (16:54)
What I see is a lot of companies investing in infrastructure, right? Or, or, you know, buying up companies where they get some talent, but there's not really much of a push for L and D. I, you know, if you're lucky, I like the thing, right? All of them have very, very comprehensive L and D programs, right? Where people are constantly learning, you know, upscaling and given the freedom to try new things and innovate inside the company, right? Because.

Vandana (16:58)
Hey.

Yeah.

Joe Crist (17:25)
Instead of just becoming an employee where you're there to collect a paycheck, it allows them to invest and be rewarded for investing. I know Google, for example, can't remember how long they do it for, but they have competitions where the engineers can actually build new things. And a lot of the innovations we see that, though they very small to us, predictive texts came from Google.

Vandana (17:32)
you

Joe Crist (17:50)
right from one of those engineers who had this brilliant idea is like, everybody does this, but because you do that, right. People feel like they really matter in the end. And that really does Excel transformation and, and Excel's in a very healthy way because now people are invested and they, they're brilliant ideas and all their energy that they have that they really want to put into it. It's like really making things happen. So you take this ambassador who is also, you know, becoming a real leader.

not just in their company, but in the industry because they are helping to make change.

Vandana (18:22)
Mm-hmm. And I would say like these, the concepts about think tanks, the war rooms, they're so important. I mean, before COVID, people were actually gathering in the war rooms, drawing it out, whiteboarding it, and the power of connectivity and all those brain, the creativity, creative juices flowing was paramount. And these were very important. I mean, it can definitely happen online as well.

where there's a will, there is a way, everything is possible. So I would say these things should not stop. it should not be, employees should not be scared to attend a learning session, for example. It should not be that, I'm taking a course right now, so how will people perceive me? It should be encouraged throughout the time. It should be part of their OKRs, the goals, performance reviews. Hey, you should be learning and you should be applying that learning.

in some manner. If not, then let us know how you actually are utilizing that learning capability. Those should be encouraged all the time. And I think it is very much needed in not just a large tech organization, but every organization. You also mentioned that it is one of the backbones of the successful organization. Otherwise, there will be too much employee turnover. Then what did you gain out of it? It's not easy to hire an individual and then let that person go.

So I think too much time, money, effort, everything goes into it. So it's better to invest your energy in training and upskilling and making sure that employee thrives in their organization. And again, if they want to try different things, learn fast, feel fast. We always talk about this agile culture that should be encouraged nonstop. Okay, you want a different role? Show us how you do it. If you're successful, yes, go on and do try something else. It should not be no.

you are boxed into a role and you cannot move from that role because there's no answer to that because. So I would say there should be lot of encouragement in trying different things and appreciation should be there. An award should be given. Very few rewards mechanisms are there for people who try new things. Maybe it is in the tech world. Again, I'm on the East Coast. It could be the...

mindset on the west coast but yes it should be rewarded such it pays off it pays off very well.

Joe Crist (20:53)
Yeah, absolutely. it's important with having a growth mindset, not just as an individual, but it's promoted in the culture. I've seen so many times where people do get boxed into their very specific role and they can't go any further even if they want to. And then they ultimately leave. I imagine it's probably a lot cheaper to buy some sort of LMS, whether it's

Vandana (20:57)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah?

Joe Crist (21:20)
Udemy or something on Kajabi or whatever, where people are actually talking about these critical skills and helping others upscale. First, you just expect someone to do the same thing over and over again. But where the challenge becomes, it's if you're having high performing people and you're not helping them get better, because high performing people love learning. That's why they're high performing. But if you take that away from them, you're going to starve them. And then they're going to get bored.

Vandana (21:33)
you

Joe Crist (21:50)
and they're gonna be less engaged. And then they're gonna start looking for other jobs because they're gonna look for a place that really does appreciate them and appreciates what they can do. And it gives them a place that will give them the environment where they can really grow and expand. It's a very critical thing as I'm seeing for companies to actually truly invest in their people and giving them the freedom to really explore who they can be.

Vandana (22:19)
Yeah, no, completely spot on. I would say as the new technologies are coming in, people are going to utilize. But unless they experiment, how will they know it will work for them? I mean, you can't just hire data scientists off the street and say, OK, now program for me and develop a predictive model and tell me which shelf should have products and which shelf should not. I'm just giving an example. But the point here is, unless they learn, they will not be able to see the end game.

Unless they know what this model is going to tell them, they will not understand. Unless they know what the industry is talking about, the benchmark, they will not be able to make an impact. So very, very important that everyone should have that learning mindset. Then only you can proudly say, yep, we all have a growth mindset.

Joe Crist (23:07)
Yeah, and that's a good place to be, especially in a rapidly changing world. You need people who can move at the pace of industry and move at the pace of the world. They have to really keep up. Because those who don't keep up obviously fall behind and no business wants to be in a position where they fall behind.

So obviously the world is changing as we mentioned before, right? There's a lot of uncertainty of what tomorrow will look like, what next week will look like, what next year will even look like, right? So from what you've seen today and in your past, like how are these changes really affecting the industries you're in or the industries you work with?

Vandana (23:47)
Yeah, I think there is lot of turmoil going on right now, a lot of &A activity, as you might have noticed. So the best way to keep up with that is make sure you are ahead of the game. know I have used this term and you have used this term throughout this time. See the bigger picture, the end game nonstop. You know in which direction the industry is moving. Again, learning mindset comes into conversation and context again. If you know in which direction

an industry is moving, whether it is tech, retail, consumer, whatever the case may be, a person should be reading about it, learning about it, watching it on LinkedIn or somewhere and understanding it, hey, this is going to be a big change. This is how the industry is shifting. Maybe I should also learn and be in the know on how the industry is shifting. And if the industry is shifting, what can I do differently to make sure I know about it? Or how can I be part of that change? Change starts with a person.

One person can drive a change and then bring others along, but that organization also should be conducive to that. It should appreciate that change. So I would say it's a very challenging environment. We saw so many &A activities last year, and it is not out of the blue. These things brew for a long time before they become public news. So with that said, everyone should know.

This is not the end of it. More &A activities will happen. Organizations and industries will shift. More organizations will come up. Different small startups will become bigger and will be on the street and will thrive again with that mindset. It starts small and then it becomes bigger. So people should learn. I would use this term again and again and again is learn what is happening. See what is around you. Experience it.

If you see you're not able to become part of it, then I think you're not growing. You have to have that growing ability in you that, I can see that, and this is the direction it's moving. If it enforces you to learn about the technology or that process or that behavior, do it. Do it, otherwise you will be left behind. And we have seen it, right? AI is replacing jobs, and this will be the norm.

some of the jobs will be replaced. So how do you make sure you keep those elements and the thought process alive, which are very much an integral part of human behavior? Yes, you cannot change what an AI can do, a bot can do, a machine learning can do, but you definitely can control what you can as a human being do. Become those leaders, become those thinkers, become those thought provoking leaders who no one can replace.

I think that is the most important thing because AI will not replace that. They cannot be thinkers. Ultimately, humans created the AI, right? So no one can replace that brain, use that brain as much as possible. I think that is the, instead of scrolling all the time, I think I would encourage people to focus and learn.

Joe Crist (26:42)
Right.

Right. So you brought up something really interesting that I've been coming to stir in my head. So there's a lot of &A activity and there's going to continue to be some, but it's not an instantaneous thing. There's not one day a company decides, hey, we're going to go buy these guys. It's they're waiting for the moment. Right. And then they're going to start with their process to start acquiring companies. So would you say that a lot of companies who are that are not adopting that growth mindset and not really pushing a strong learning environment, they're the ones who are being acquired and.

Vandana (27:07)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Crist (27:25)
not in a good way, it's they've put themselves in a bad position and now makes them prime to be taken by somebody else. Are those the companies that are typically being acquired or is it the ones who are having that growth mindset where they're really like they're building a lot of revenue?

Vandana (27:33)
Yes.

I have seen both sides of it. Of course, the prime targets for hostile takeover or takeovers are the ones who are not growing enough or have not shown that value. Usually you get those inklings from the investors very soon. Everything is out in the social media. But if you're not growing fast enough and keeping up with the change or not able to understand what is happening, I have worked for many organizations who actually

could not survive for a long time. Or some of them who became exponential growth leaders. And it is all because of how quickly and nimbly they were able to change or morph into a new environment. So the most important thing is how do you keep up with the latest and greatest happening around you? And that is tech. Tech is changing faster than anything else. Processes might not change that much.

It is your technology which will change. Every day there is a new one which we have not heard about and the day also goes by. And next day you hear about it. So how do you keep up with that? And it's not that you can keep up with every possible thing out there, but how do you make sure at least you are in the know so you are not behind? So these things will happen. These things will happen a lot, a lot. Smaller players will become bigger because...

They have that capability, they have that runway, and some large will have to break off because they cannot contain it and the margins are permitting because ultimately you have to show on the street. And some will remain as they are because they have a niche product which others cannot copy for now. So there will be a different way of operation. But in the next decade, I see more &A activity and many sell-outs, buy-outs.

which will happen. But by this time, it should have triggered in many minds that this is the norm and you have to accept this new norm.

Joe Crist (29:43)
Yeah. So there's a saying, it's a adapt or die, right? Where you really do have to have that, that learning mindset and you have to be looking to the horizon where the changes are coming and you have to work and you really have to start prepping, right? It's, it's one thing to be aware that, Hey, this is coming down the line, but especially business leaders, but as well as other employees is what do we need to start doing today to get ready for tomorrow?

Vandana (29:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Joe Crist (30:12)
I tomorrow

is coming, whether we want it or not. You can't stop the clock.

Vandana (30:17)
Exactly. Exactly. I mean, no one wants to be termed as a blockbuster or a Kodak or a Blackberry. Right. They are no longer nouns. So it's very important how you actually change it and know when to change and when to pivot.

Joe Crist (30:36)
So I do have one last question for you though. It's definitely my favorite question. Because obviously you've been in the game for a while and you've seen a lot. What's one piece of that you could give to the audience?

Vandana (30:49)
So I'm sure you have heard many different types because I lead with people mindset first, I would say listening. Listening is one thing which is going down and down and down. But as leaders or as any human being, you have to develop that skill more and more. In this world of social media, it's a constant overload of information and you can't keep up and your attention span is going down.

So how do you make sure you listen first before you react? How do you make sure you listen before you say something? How do you make sure you listen so that you are hearing the other person, not just providing your point of view? Because when you consume so much information coming from different sources, you just think that is all. You don't have to listen. But that is something I would say people should carefully pay attention to and develop that art of listening.

Joe Crist (31:48)
Wow.

That's, I did not expect that. That was, that's actually very, very deep. It was making me think about, especially when mentioned social media, that there's so much out there. It's, there's too much out there, right? We're bombarded every day, especially with AI automating a lot of like the output that we see today, but it's, I've seen it too though. People really have stopped listening and just focused on just.

making noise and talking and getting information out there. But that is something we need to do. I agree. You really need to start listening better, not only to our customers, but to ourselves and our organizations. Wow, that was very well put. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. I really, really did appreciate that. I definitely learned a lot myself. I'm sure the audience has as well. Everyone, thank you so much for listening.

And Vandana, once again, thank you so much for joining us and really sharing your insight and your knowledge with the community. Everyone, will see you next week for another exciting episode of Thrive and Indigilate. Thanks everyone.

Vandana (32:55)
Thanks, Sue.